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Battle Arena Battle Bot 4.0 Idea & Testing Thread

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#81 Pentium320

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 07:42 PM

-Edit-

And I saw pentium reply that it isn't the skills that caused him to stop playing but rather the feeling like he's beaten the game.  I'm assuming that's probably your feeling as well.  My question to you two is.. what could I do/add that would stop that feeling?   Not that I want you two to keep playing if you're bored or done with it, but I'm curious what more I could do to continue making the game feel fresh and keep it going.  You've both played far longer than pretty much everyone.. you've done pretty much everything I've added (and quite often done it very quickly due to your high levels lol). 

 

Neither I, don't have answer to your question. You've already added so many things and updates mostly because of us on Esper network, that it's even hard to count. It took us over 500 days to literally obtain everything playing.. almost every day. In my case, that's probably more gameplay time than time wasted in Skyrim, Mass Effect and Minecraft when putting it together. That's really something! :D Maybe I just need a break, like I did when firstly discovered BA (and that was probably 2.2 version? maybe). Played with friends on Freenode, and we finished at 2.3 version, then I skipped almost everything, and came back, but to your channel on version 3.0. It was like discovering something completly new. And to be honest - I'm significantly shorter on time now, so don't feel it like I really don't want to play :)

 

Back to topic, speaking about new skill system, I'll just paste what I said on channel: it needs improvements :) Adding possibility to change it in battle for a cost of turn was one of them, but that's not all I guess :P. I kinda agree with baracouda, that personally I feel like limiting skills that you use in one battle would be nicer and less "invasive" way, to shorten situation, when player has so many active skills, that list doesn't fit in one line. I would even make it to work, like having active only 3-5 skills simultaneously (so, if one of your active skill disappear, after that you can use another). Though, reminding, that portals also need adjustments, as some may become unbeatable, or really extremly hard to be beaten

Another idea I had in mind was adding something like skill points, that will recharge in battle when turns become, and every skill costs some of them. But I guess that's quite hard to be included now, especially, that you've already done skill system with slots.

If we want to stay at current system, my another idea was moving some of skills to be automatically available when some style is active. Well, that's not exactly "moving", but let me explain: let's say, that you switch to guardian style. Lets say, that this skill provides some skills, like Perfectdefense, Utsusemi and Royalguard. You'll have them equipped because of the style, and they won't require slots to be equipped as long, as you have guardian style active. But that doesn't mean, that if you switch to Weaponmaster style you won't be able to equip those skills - you'll just need slots for it. Weaponmaster could recieve: Konzen-ittai, Mightystrike, Truestrike. Spellmaster could recieve: ElementalSeal, BloodSpirit, Manawall. Trickster could recieve: Thirdeye, Gamble. And so on, I guess there are enough styles and skills to be fit to some styles making them more attractive. Though, no idea how others feel this idea.

 

Speaking about gamble.. improving it with some nice random events is nice idea.


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#82 baracouda

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 08:56 PM

The first part of this post is for Karmen .

 

 

I know that you like Shenron for example but with us it sometimes gets in the way of what we are trying to achieve so that suggests to me you might play this game in a different style . We have 3 big players on level 45000 and each account is completely different . I was thinking it might be nice to visit your server with our 3 guys ( if that’s okay with you ) and see how you do things . I am hoping we are all free this weekend . Feel free to leave a message in my forums PM .

 

 

Iyouboushi

 

 

Found Pentiums post interesting . I would also add that as we have both set up our accounts differently , they do compliment each other extremely well when used together so my response might be a little different . Might need 3-4 days to fully reply 


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#83 Iyouboushi

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 02:02 PM

If we want to stay at current system, my another idea was moving some of skills to be automatically available when some style is active.

It appears that I was planning that from the start, actually (looking back at the end of the old thread).  I've just added code to make this possible.  All that remains now is to decide which skills should be linked to which styles and/or if new styles need to be added.

 

Kind of wish I could scrap the styles all together and just make them be classes instead (so instead of a Trickster style you might have a Rogue class; instead of Weaponmaster you'd have Warrior, etc).  I guess it'd be as simple as renaming things..but it'd be a royal pain to change all that now so late into the game's creation.

 

But anyway, yeah.. I have the code ready.  All I have to do is decide which skills should go on which styles and which skills shouldn't be linked to styles at all.  Open for suggestions before I do this (as I'd rather not have to redo it :P and it's the reason I haven't already made those changes)


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#84 baracouda

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 06:50 PM

Skill change etc

 

 

<Pentium320> we need to decide about skills that will be moved to use with styles

<Pentium320> i personally say, that weaponmaster shouldn't boost magic in that case

<Pentium320> i;ll try to make list of skills for styles tomorrow\

 

 

 

Well , have posted before about it :-

 

 

http://iyouboushi.co...-thread/page-38      #372 / #380

 

But WeaponMaster style is so so much better for Wizardry than SpellMaster 


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#85 Iyouboushi

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 08:22 PM

I stand by what I wrote originally: techs -are- stronger.    All of this was done using Mjolnir's Thor'sRage on a level 1 orbfountain.

 

 

spellmaster - 31,501 damage

weaponmaster - 30,608 damage

 

Regardless, I did make some changes with spellmaster to try and give spells a slightly bigger boost when using that style.  It won't affect all techs though, just spells.

 

spellmaster - 30,796 damage

weaponmaster -  28,428 damage

 

I have no idea why the spellmaster damage went down by almost a thousand in the second test after the changes when the damage should have gone up by 10%.  I'm telling you, the bot is possessed and does whatever it wants regardless of what I tell it to do.


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#86 Iyouboushi

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Posted Yesterday, 02:11 PM

To make it easier on everyone, here is a list of all skills that need to be equipped to use.  These are the skills we can talk about linking to styles (i.e. don't need to equip to use as long as you're using that particular style).  Also keep in mind -not every single skill- needs to be linked to a style.  It's OK if there's a bunch that aren't.  We just need to all agree which skills would be best linked to a style and to which ones.

 

 

Speed
ElementalSeal
MightyStrike
TrueStrike
ManaWall
RoyalGuard
PerfectDefense
Fullbring
Sugitekai
Meditate
ConserveTP
BloodBoost
BloodSpirit
DrainSamba
Regen
Kikouheni
ShadowCopy
Utsusemi
Cover
Aggressor
Defender
Provoke
Disarm
WeaponLock
Konzen-ittai
SealBreak
FormlessStrike
MagicMirror
Gamble
Thirdeye
Retaliation
JustRelease
 

 

 

And a reminder of which styles there are:

 

Trickster (free, start with this)

WeaponMaster (free, start with this)

Guardian (free, start with this)

Spellmaster (6 black orbs)

Doppelganger (5 black orbs)

Quicksilver (10 black orbs)

HitenMitsurugi-ryu (5 black orbs)

CounterStance (20 black orbs)

Beastmaster (5 black orbs)

Wrestlemania (15 black orbs)

 

 

If I might offer a suggestion..  don't put any skills on Doppelganger, Beastmaster, or Quicksilver.  And possibly not on Counterstance either.  The reason being, all of those styles already have different moves and commands tied to them.

 

Also.. some small amounts of info about the styles:

 

Trickster, WeaponMaster and Guardian are all based on Devil May Cry 3 starting styles (though in DMC they're Trickster, Swordmaster and Royalguard).  Quicksilver and Doppelganger are also DMC 3 styles.    In the game, Trickster is used for speed and allows you evade attacks.  Swordmaster (Weaponmaster in this case) enhances your melee attack and gives you new weapon abilities and RoyalGuard (Guardian here) gives you defensive properties (such as Just Release and blocking things perfectly allowing you to take 0 damage by attacks).

 

Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu comes from Rurouni Kenshin and is the sword style of choice by the protagonist.  It's a super fast style that allows for enhanced speed and deadly accuracy with the katana.

 

Spellmaster isn't really based on anything but was mostly added to be a counterpart to WeaponMaster.

 

Beastmaster is based on the job of the same name in the Final Fantasy series (mostly FFXI) which allows you to tame monsters and use them to fight alongside yourself.  In BA it lets you control your summons.

 

CounterStance isn't really based on anything either but was added just to allow for enhanced countering.

 

And Wrestlemania is just a way to add a hand to hand style with a bit of flair.  Obviously named after the WWE event.


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#87 Pentium320

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Posted Yesterday, 08:36 PM

Thanks for the list. So, I'll just quote & edit your post

 

Speed - HitenMitsurugi-ryu & Trickster

ElementalSeal - Spellmaster
MightyStrike - Weaponmaster
TrueStrike - Weaponmaster
ManaWall - Spellmaster
RoyalGuard - Guardian
PerfectDefense - Guardian
Fullbring - ? (I kinda feel like it shouldn't need to be equipped, but welp..)
Sugitekai - HitenMitsurugi-ryu (Optionally: Quicksilver)
Meditate - ?
ConserveTP - ?
BloodBoost - Weaponmaster
BloodSpirit - Spellmaster
DrainSamba - ? (Maybe HitenMitsurugi-ryu, though not sure if it fits)
Regen - Spellmaster
Kikouheni - Spellmaster
ShadowCopy - ? (It kinda self-imposes for Doppleganger, hm..)
Utsusemi - Guardian
Cover - Guardian
Aggressor - Wrestlemania
Defender - Guardian
Provoke - Trickster
Disarm - Trickster
WeaponLock - ?
Konzen-ittai - Weaponmaster
SealBreak - You said, that it doesn't need to be equipped, so I guess it's a mistake.
FormlessStrike - Weaponmaster
MagicMirror - Spellmaster
Gamble - Trickster
Thirdeye - Trickster
Retaliation - ? (though, that would quite fit to Counterstance)
JustRelease - To be honest? I think, that this shouldn't require equipping, as you almost don't have chance to use it, and most of monsters have resist for this.

 

Where I put "?" means, that I don't know what style would fit, or we can try to leave it empty.

 

Calculations:

 

Trickster (free, start with this): 5

WeaponMaster (free, start with this): 5

Guardian (free, start with this): 5

Spellmaster (6 black orbs): 5 or 6, depends.

HitenMitsurugi-ryu (5 black orbs) 2 or 3, depends.

Wrestlemania (15 black orbs): 1

 

So, tried to be mostly balanced for styles, except last two cause.. I have no idea what could really fit to them. Decided to mostly choose 5 skills to styles, as such number still isn't even a half of skills, that could be equipped, but that could always make them more attractive.

 

Not sure how others feel it, that's my idea.

 

I stand by what I wrote originally: techs -are- stronger.   

 

Sorry, but I also have to agree there with @baracouda :/. He tested it at torment and dragon hunt with me. Although, in capped battle the difference isn't "that" huge, but in torment... well, difference is I guess more than double, when comparing Weaponmaster and Spellmaster styles (of course in favor of the Weaponmaster). I know, you wrote, that bot is going insane when it comes about damage formula... And some at channel may hate me for this idea, as it will affect us all, but I quite believe, that balancing it could come with... disabling boosting magic attacks with weaponmaster style. This can be quite painful, and may require boosting (yeah, I know, again) Spellmaster anyway, but in current state I agree, that Spellmaster is worse in every aspect than Weaponmaster. Yes, even, if you're strictly magic player. If you don't believe, contact me/us on #BattleArena, and we can test it :). Maybe I'll also take a look at the code, but uhm, I don't understand everything, and damage formula is totally *magic* for me, lol.


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#88 baracouda

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Posted Today, 10:52 AM

baracouda is wearing Spaekona'sPetasos on his head; Spaekona'sCoat on his body; Spaekona'sTonban on his legs; Spaekona'sSabots on his feet; Spaekona'sGloves on his hands. baracouda also has Forbidden-Earrings+2 and Forbidden-Crown+2 equipped as accessories and is currently using the Aedold and Ochain weapons

 

 

First of all , these are the test comparisons I did :-

 

 

SpellMaster - Currently Maxed

 

 

With the current armor and weapons equipped, baracouda has the following augment strengths:

 

 

 

EnhanceDoubleTurnChance[1], IgnoreMetalDefense[1], IgnoreDefense[1], RenkeiBonus[1], MagicBonus[7], CuringBonus[5], AdditionalHit[1], Drain[1], EnhanceItems[1], EnhanceDodge[2]

[15:34] <BattleArena> EnhanceParry[1], EnhanceCounter[2], UtsusemiBonus[1], EnhanceBloodSpirit[6], EnhanceMeditate[2], EnhanceThirdEye[1], EnhanceScavenge[1], EnhanceSteal[1], EnhanceTreasureHunter[1], EnhanceZen[2]

[15:34] <BattleArena> EnhanceWeaponBash[1], EnhanceEnfeeble[5], EnhanceGlyph[6], EnhanceWand[6], EnhanceStaff[6], EnhanceStylePoints[1], EnhanceElementalDefense[1], EnhanceDragonHunt[4], EnhanceKillerTraits[2], IncreaseIGGainRate[1]

 

!techs HolyII(509)

 

 

 

Spellaster -Currently Maxed

 

level 1 

 

* baracouda uses his HolyII on lost

<BattleArena> baracouda casts a stronger version of Holy. Searing light engulfs the battlefield to damage all targets!

<BattleArena> The attack did 39,919 damage to Lost Soul! [Maximum Style!]

 

level 3

 

<BattleArena> The attack did 39,907 damage to Lost Soul! [Maximum Style!]

 

level 5 

 

* baracouda uses his HolyII on orb

<BattleArena> The attack did 37,791 damage to Red Orb Fountain! [Maximum Style!]

 

========================================================================================================

 

 

WeaponMaster - Currently Maxed

 

Differences to SpellMaster augment strength :-

EnhanceParry[2], EnhanceBloodSpirit[5], EnhanceGlyph[5], EnhanceWand[5], EnhanceStaff[5], 

 

level 2

 

* baracouda uses his HolyII on orb

<BattleArena> The attack did 39,650 damage to Red Orb Fountain! [Maximum Style!]

 

level 0

 

 * baracouda uses his HolyII on orb

The attack did 41,432 damage to Red Orb Fountain! [Maximum Style!]

 

 

 

 

 

This is my response to the above skill changes :-

 

 

 

Speed - Wrestlemania  , HitenMitsurugi-ryu , Trickster

ElementalSeal - Spellmaster

MightyStrike - Guardian , HitenMitsurugi-ryu , Quicksilver , Wrestlemania

TrueStrike - CounterStance , WeaponMaster 

ManaWall - Spellmaster 

RoyalGuard - Trickster , Beastmaster , Spellmaster 

PerfectDefense - Guardian , CounterStance , Doppelganger , WeaponMaster

Fullbring - All Styles except Quicksilver

Sugitekai - All Styles except Doppelganger

Meditate - Guardian

ConserveTP - Quicksilver , Beastmaster 

BloodBoost - WeaponMaster , CounterStance , HitenMitsurugi-ryu , Beastmaster 

BloodSpirit - Spellmaster

DrainSamba - Trickster , Beastmaster 

Regen - Trickster & WeaponMaster 

Kikouheni - All Styles

ShadowCopy - Doppelganger , Beastmaster

Utsusemi - All Styles except Doppelganger , Guardian  

Cover - Trickster , CounterStance , Guardian  

Aggressor -  Wrestlemania , Quicksilver

Defender - Guardian , HitenMitsurugi-ryu

Provoke - Wrestlemania , HitenMitsurugi-ryu 

Disarm - Guardian , CounterStance

WeaponLock - Trickster

Konzen-ittai - WeaponMaster , HitenMitsurugi-ryu (only problem is that we have monsters which can only be killed with renkei )

SealBreak - All Styles except Doppelganger , Quicksilver , Beastmaster 

FormlessStrike - WeaponMaster , Wrestlemania    

MagicMirror - CounterStance

Gamble - All Styles except Doppelganger , Beastmaster 

Thirdeye - Beastmaster , Spellmaster 

Retaliation - CounterStance , Guardian

JustRelease - All Styles

 

 

I expect there will be some things you like and other things you disagree with , so I expect someone else to re-edit this list :) 


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#89 Iyouboushi

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Posted Today, 02:55 PM

After the last update the game automatically adds a 25% penalty to spell damage if you're not using spellmaster.  With that in mind there's no reason why it should still be doing more.  As I've said before, I have no idea why this is happening and until I (or someone else) figures out WTF is going on there's no hope of fixing it.

 

As for the skills.. let's try to sort this a little better.   Combining the two lists above.. here's how it would look. 

 

 

Trickster

Speed

Provoke

Disarm

Gamble

ThirdEye

RoyalGuard

Sugitekai?

DrainSamba?

Regen

Cover

WeaponLock

 

WeaponMaster

MightyStrike

TrueStrike

BloodBoost

Konzen-ittai

FormlessStrike

PerfectDefense

Sugitekai?

Regen

 

Guardian

RoyalGuard

PerfectDefense

Defender

MightyStrike

Sugitekai?

Meditate

Cover

Disarm

Retaliation

 

Spellmaster

ElementalSeal

ManaWall

BloodSpirit

Regen

Kikouheni

Utsusemi

Cover

MagicMirror

RoyalGuard

Sugitekai?

BloodSpirit

ThirdEye

 

HitenMitsurugi-ryu

Speed

Sugitekai

MightyStrike

Defender

Provoke

Konzen-ittai

 

Wrestlemania

Aggressor

Speed

MightyStrike

Sugitekai?

Provoke

FormlessStrike

 

Quicksilver

Sugitekai?

MightyStrike

ConserveTP

aggressor

 

CounterStance

TrueStrike

PerfectDefense

Sugitekai?

BloodBoost

Cover

Disarm

MagicMirror

Retaliation

 

Beastmaster

RoyalGuard

Sugitekai?

ConserveTP

DrainSamba?

ShadowCopy

ThirdEye

 

Doppelganger

PerfectDefense

Sugitekai?

ShadowCopy

 

Undecided

Fullbring [bara suggested all styles except quicksilver]

JustRelease [everyone suggested making this not needing to be equipped]

 

 

 

This seems a bit much, in my opinion.  It would be easier just to swap styles around in battle and get access to half the skills which would make the whole equipping-to-use thing moot. 

 

I kind of like the idea of every style having maybe 5 max.  That would still require people to equip certain skills but would still give quite a few extras for free depending on style.  So let's work on narrowing it down a little lol.


~James~
Even if you can't rely on anyone else, just pull yourself together and roar!
My Website :: The Ultimate Rurouni Kenshin FAQ

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#90 Smz

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Posted Today, 03:06 PM

Should really use the Seveneyes wand to compare damage to other Torment weapons, instead of a wand that's far weaker than any Torment weapon. Actually looked back to the older post and noticed Seveneyes was never used to test, yet Mjolnir and Deadalus+1 was.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure it was said NOT to put skills on Quicksilver/Beastmaster/Doppelganger/Counterstance? Just curious why there's skill listed for those anyway.


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